Yes
Submitted by Triple Q on December 08 2000 09:40:16
In reply to No. submitted by mvanhouten on December 08 2000 08:45:41
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They DO hurt, they do demean and they put people on the defensive. That's because the most effective labels come with lies attached. I'm labeled a "sex offender" yet no one who has sex with me is "offended." No, the most effective labels ARE lies...and only the weak-minded would believe a lie about themselves from someone who doesn't know them. Your whole argument lies in what others believe about us. My whole argument lies in the fact that, if we believe ourselves righteous in our cause, lies and labels will not affect us because who we are far outweights what someone else thinks we are. You might want to re-read some of King's and Mandella's works. They thought the same way. You and I know Heather's labels are deceptive, but he "lay" readers swallow it hook, line, and sinker. We have no choice as to whether her lay audience lets the lies work. Those who want to believe lies, will believe lies no matter what anyone tells them. As to Heather's labels being deceptive and encouraging "lay" readers to believe the "hidden meaning", they are the pathetic ones...not us. Simply accepting something at face value without doing a little more research to find out the truth, is something you would expect of an inbred Arkansas hillbilly. And we, as a community, always have new members comming in, and the first thing WE have to do for them is expose the lies of the labels they absorbed from the culture. We have to spend much of the energy of our activism explaining to them, over and over, that they are NOT monsters, they are NOT "sex-offenders," their love and relationships are as good (or as wanting) as any other human being's. You would be surprised at the number of established long-time posters at BC that are secure in their sexuality because of discussions I've had with them. And, if you're who I think you are, mikey, YOU'RE one of them. (How quickly they forget.) When our resident busybody uses those offensive terms without bothering to point out the cruel distortions that come with them. She confuses and sets back those who listen to her. Look at the situation of one of her "biggest supporters." You publicly announce that if minors would be given the right to vote, "Barney" would be president. You publicly announce "fuck our history." You dismiss and mock the intelligence of youth, and the intelligence of boy-lover leaders and thinkers that came before you. Not only do you jump to major leaps of illogic, you also have a selective memory. The "Barney" and "fuck our history" are part of a larger picture that you obviously ignored to try to make it appear that I'm saying something that I'm not. As to dismissing and mocking the intelligence of youth, how the hell would you know what I think about the intelligence of youth? You only read what you want to (selectively) and throw out the rest. When you WORK (not just try to find bed-partners) with kids like I do, you know that they are a lot more intelligent than people give them credit for. And the question of the intelligence of boy-lover leaders and thinkers is a question that's still out. They have been ineffective so far, so why give them credit where there is none? Unfortunately, you let the derogatory terms effect you. So I guess it is pretty hard NOT to let them. Heather would be fairly amused to think that she has had ANY effect on my way of thinking. Really, mikey, I've been around a lot longer than Heather has been and I haven't changed my stance on too much. If either of us has changed, it's been Heather...and that's for the better. Whether she uses "loaded terms" or not, she (unlike the vast majority of non-peds who come on the boards) is still here and trying to help...unlike the trouble-makers amongst us who think that it's their way or the highway. |
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