Re: Celibacy, Clubs and Lust
Submitted by sally on March 25 2002 00:49:44
In reply to Celibacy, Clubs and Lust submitted by J on March 24 2002 18:39:56
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I suppose that assessment would be correct. Personally, I have no problem with calling myself a ‘homosexual pedophile’ – it is a descriptor similar to saying that you are a ‘heterosexual’. If I call myself a ‘boylover’ I’m conveying no further information than what my sexual orientation is. My question is why wear any label? You are a new creature in Christ. I've murdered and I actually am so selfish that I could murder again if God ever let me alone for very long. But I do not fear that I will ever murder again. And I don't think of myself as a murderer. I think of myself as a Christian. Now I understand that there is some difference in that my desire to murder is not an consistent occurrence. But to be quite honest there have been times when I have been severely tempted to murder... (I know I'm not very nice-- you all have considered suicide and I've considered murder) but there have been times when the desire to murder has been strong and I've had to repent of that and shove it forcefully away quickly. There have been times when that desire has persisted for months on end. And all I could do was repent every time that thought entered my head. I cannot say that God made me this way-- selfish beyond belief-- and so my desires are not sinful. They only pop into my head at those times when I am being selfish and having pity parties and thinking that I'd like to be free of whoever is holding me down at the time. I am deeply remorseful for my actions and while a day never goes by that I don’t feel guilty for what I did, I trust in my Lord that He has forgiven me of my sin (Psalm 51; 103:8-14). I hope and am confident that the day will come when you give up that guilt. If Christ bore that sin you have no need of stealing it back from him and trying to bear it at all. I often tell my kids that when God forgives he throws their sin into the sea, he moves it away from him as far as the East is from the West, he puts it behind his back... all these things he's promised. You cannot bear guilt for sin that Christ committed. In God's eyes you did not commit that sin, Jesus did. He was found guilty and when the accuser of the brethren accuses you God points to the charges that hung over Jesus' head and says, "oh no, that one was done by Jesus and he paid for it already." Then he bangs his gavel and says, "Not guilty." Such a ‘club’ would hardly be necessary since adult heterosexuality is the societal norm. Your analogy falls apart at this point. The reason this place and others similar to it exist is because we cannot simply live out our lives in society without condemnation or worse. We cannot be open with our family and friends (though incidentally I am with most of mine, most pedophiles are not). Oh but you missed it. I cannot live my life as I please either. I cannot murder people I don't like and I guarantee you I don't go around telling people that the thought has even entered my mind. And heterosexual sex between a married woman and a man she is not married to. Not in my society, anyway. Shall I start a support group? Do you think I can be open with my family? Do you think I call up my mom and tell her, "Hi mom, today, I'm lusting." Do you think that married couples who are socially acceptable don't have temptations that are not acceptable and that they do not broadcast about? You can live your life in society as freely as any of us. You just may not let it all hang out. The problem I think society has with you, and with gays in general, is not that your sins are so much worse than anyone else's but that many who are tempted homosexuality and/or any other sexual sin, most I would guess, refuse to believe that your evil desires are sinful. What I don't understand is why you feel a need to tell people that you have these sinful desires? Why do you need to find others who are like you? I have looked into the depths of my soul and seen such ugliness there. Perhaps because my parents were missionaries and I grew up hearing the gospel message daily, I have never felt particularly odd for being so ugly and sinful. We all are ugly and sinful. I see nothing helpful in searching out others who are also tempted by my particular ugly sins and discuss it with them so we all feel normal. The Bible tells me I'm normal. It tells me that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is normal. As long as you view your sin as different from everyone else's sin and somehow too strong for Christ to break you will never beat it. Your first statement about desires being okay, actions wrong is a rather thorny theological issue that is far beyond the scope of this particular thread. I am currently reassessing my previous viewpoint on this issue, which was that both the desires and actions were not wrong so long as they conformed to a monogamous and consensual relationship. As for desiring when one is not married, there is nothing wrong with that – it is normal and healthy – how else would people ever get married if they didn’t first have attraction and desire for a mate/companion? I don't know how you can think that desire for a sinful thing might not be sinful. While too lengthy to quote, I admit that I’m having serious problems with your views that women should not be alone with men lest they be tempted to have an affair with them. One can flee such a temptation in their mind; there is no need to flee the area to avoid it. The same would apply to those people here who have boys in their lives, yet are sexually attracted to boys. Your solution to the problem of lust seems to be a gigantic case of overkill, in my opinion. Hmmm... so when God tells us to flee he is speaking of in our minds? I've never heard that interpretation of that scripture before. So you would not tell the drunk to avoid the bars and you would not tell the man who is addicted to porn to avoid the Internet and you would not tell the teenaged boy with the raging hormones to not be alone with a girl? Why did God tell the Israelites to not mix with the surrounding nations? He didn't want them to adopt their gods. He didn't tell them to flee in their minds. He told them to stay away! P.S. – When you do get back from church, I’d much rather have a discussion, not a ‘lecture’... I know that is why I try to give everyone fair warning. So they can ignore me if they want. I'm a mom and I have much practice in lecturing. sal |
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