Another PS
Submitted by Dakota on March 25 2002 16:50:00
In reply to A shorter response. One donut should be planty. submitted by Dakota on March 25 2002 02:06:48
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After reading your other replies, I have a couple more comments, and figured I'd stick them here. You spoke of how mentoring a child is the exclusive right and duty of the parents. I agree that the parents should be the main source of mentoring to their child, although I don't agree that it is wrong for a non-family member to help, even in close to ideal homes. But the big problem I see in your view is that there are not that many close to ideal families anyway. Many parents do not take their role as seriously as you do. And even those that do take their role as parents quite seriously, don't always have the ability to be the kind of parents they should be, whether it be because they lack the skills, or more often because they lack the time. Many times parents have to spend too much time working to put food on the table to be the kind of parent God intended them to be. So what is to become of the children in these less than ideal homes? I can't believe you would condemn a child to live without the attention they need just to doggedly adhere to an ideal that may not exist for that child. Another area I want to comment on again is sinful desires. After reading more of your replies, I think I may have misunderstood what you meant. When I say sexual desires (of any kind) are not sinful, I mean that I don't believe someone is sinning when these desires pop in their heads. But now I'm wondering if by saying these desires are sinful, if what you mean is that they are sinful because it would be sin to act on those desires. If that is what you meant, I agree and apologize for misunderstanding. However, if you meant that just having the desire is sinning, I still must disagree. I don't believe a person is sinning just by having a random thought about anything. To use your example, if you had a thought about murdering someone pop in your head, I don't believe you sinned. But if you start dwelling on that thought, such as planning how you would do it, then that is sinning. In my case, if I see a boy, and a bit of lust creeps into my mind, I don't believe I have sinned. But if I start undressing the boy in my mind, then I have sinned. I'm not perfect. I admit I have done the latter, and have needed to ask forgiveness, because I actively cultivated those thoughts. But I can't believe anything a person does not have an active role in is sin. In your reply to Hopesalive, you seem to be suggesting we just shut up about our orientation and keep it a secret. Actually, that's what most of us do everywhere but here. But we need to talk about it with someone. A shared burden is easier to carry. For myself, there are times I feel so overwhelmed with the world's view of me, I need to talk with someone who lets me know that I'm not so terrible. A sinner, yes. But no more a sinner than anyone else. I am not trying to hold myself up as better than anyone else. I am just trying to remember that I'm not worse than anyone else either. When I read story after story in the newspapers that say things like "a man was arrested for pedophilia" or "a man was convicted of being a pedophile" or in some other way implying that merely BEING a pedophile is a crime, it gets to me after a while. The way they use the term pedophile as if it means child molester. TV shows and movies are just as bad. They carry the message that you can't be a pedophile without also being a molester. After being inundated with those kinds of views over a period of time, I need someone to remind me that I am NOT a molester, and I don't have to be. You say we shouldn't force the world to deal with it. I'm not an "in your face" kind of person, and I'm no activist. But the world can't ignore the fact that there are pedophiles in the world and not all of them molest. In actuallity, only a minority of pedophiles molest, and it's grossly unfair and offensive to assume we are all a danger. This site's main purpose is not to change the world. If a few hearts and minds are changed along the way, all the better. But it's mainly here to help us deal with our pedophilia, not to make the world deal with us. You also said that maybe we were outcasts because we talk about it and say our thoughts aren't sinful. Let me clarify again that my belief is that having a desire is not necessarily a sin, however it might be pointing to an act that would be a sin. But quite frankly, the vast majority of people don't have a clue of what our opinions are on this matter. Have you ever read a newspaper article that quoted a pedophile on his opinions? The only articles are about molesters and molestations. If the offender is ever quoted at all (and I don't recall ever reading of one) it would just be to offer some lame excuse as to why he did it. They aren't going to ask about his overall views on being a pedophile. Fictional movies are just as bad. You never see a movie with a pedophile unless he is a molester. And the molester is never portrayed as a relatively decent guy who let his desires get out of hand. He is portrayed as a real sicko, the kind of guy any rational person would want to see put away forever. There are a few movies that HINT that a character MIGHT be a pedophile, and is not a monster. But they are rare, and most people are so conditioned by the media to see all pedophiles as sickos and monsters, that they never make the connection. They are more likely to see it as a movie that shows someone who some people THINK might be a pedophile, but are obviously wrong, since he is really a nice guy. And we all know that pedophiles CAN'T be nice guys. So my point is that we aren't outcasts because of the way we view our pedophilia, because very few people are aware of how we view it. I guess in the strictest sense of the word, we are not personally outcasts. Pedophiles are outcasts. We only personally become outcasts if we reveal that we are pedophiles. But because WE know what we are, we FEEL like outcasts. And if you think that the label of pedophile causes us to be outcasts, then forget the word pedophile and interject "someone who is sexually attracted to children." Do you honestly think that would change anyone's view? You ask why we need to talk about it. Fair question. I can tell you why *I* need to talk about it. Many reasons. To know I'm not alone in my struggles and that others have similar struggles. To be reminded that I'm no worse than anyone else, regardless of what most others (including the media) says or thinks. So I don't feel so alone in this battle. For understanding. To find out how others with a similar orientation deal with it so that I might learn how to better deal with it myself. For strength. For fellowship. To worship God among people who know my darkest secret and still acknowledge me as a brother in Christ. There are other reasons, but those are the first ones to come to mind. You know, if you or others believe that the sexual desires I feel for boys are sins, that's ok. I don't agree, but I don't have a major problem with it. As long as that same person believes his or her own sexual desires (that everyone has) are sins also. That definition of sin is a lot broader than mine, but we can't always agree on religious views. The problem I have is when others believe my desires make me a worse person than him or her, and that is the prevalent opinion of most people. I can't believe you are not aware of this. My view on people is that we are all sinners. But once we are saved by grace, we begin a journey of becoming more like Christ and expelling sin from our lives. At least that's how it's supposed to be. We will never be completely sinless till we get to heaven. But while we are here, we are to work on avoiding sin, more and more. In other words, I believe we are filled with less and less sin as we grow in Christ. You seem to believe that we are all dirty rotten scoundrels till the day we die, no one being less dirty than the next. I guess compared to God, we are all filthy. But I see people like Mother Theresa, or the Pope, or Billy Graham, and I see someone a lot less dirty than me. But the view of everyone being dirty rotten scoundrels is fine. The problem is that most people look at pedophiles as being the dirty rotten scoundrels while everyone else is only slightly tarnished. Can you honestly say you know many people that don't view pedophiles with disgust? Knowing and being reminded constantly of how people would feel about me if they knew I was attracted to children sure hurts my self esteem. Why do you think there are so many suicides among pedophiles? So sites like this try to rebuild what society is constantly tearing down. Frankly, I don't think we'll ever agree on this. I respect your views, but even believing as you do, I'm still surprised you don't think this board should be here. I do appreciate you putting pedophiles on the same level as any other sinner. My fondest hope is for everyone to do that. I do get tired of hearing that the deepest, darkest pit in hell is reserved for me and my kind. I'm not asking people to accept my desires as OK. I don't look at them as being "not that bad" as you suggested to Bach. I look at them as seriously as anyone, since if those desires were acted on, it might cause a boy to suffer harm with me being the cause. But I refuse to be ashamed of something I have no control over. I do not lift myself above other sinners. But neither do I lower myself below them, and I will not accept them doing it. One final thought. You were saying how you have had pedophilia on the brain lately. It sounded like you were saying it was a bit of a burden since you were waking up in the middle of the night thinking about it. Consider this. If it has becaome somewhat of a burden for YOU, after a couple days of interacting with us as a person on the outside, how much more of a burden can you imagine it to be for someone that has to deal with it every single day of his life; not from the outside looking in, but from the inside. It's much easier to discuss the reasons and theories about why people hate a group of people when you aren't in that group. Just like it's easier for me to disuss the reasons and theories about why the Nazis hated the Jews, because I am not a Jew. You have been dealing with it as an exchange of ideas. When it's over, you can go back to your normal everyday life. We will still be dealing with it. We can't walk away from it. We can't even take a break from it. So that's why we need each other. Perhaps we wouldn't need each other as much if society put us on equal ground with everyone else. Maybe then we could "blend in" more. But society won't allow us to blend in, at least if they know what we struggle with. And as long as society continues to vilify anyone with sexual feelings for kids, even when they don't act on them, there will always be a need for banding together to maintain our strength (to resist temptation), our self esteem, our dignity, and our sanity. Dakota |
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