Job in the modern world
Submitted by Rue on September 13 1999 at 16:14:21
In reply to Re: What is the purpose of prayer? Submitted by Chris on September 12 1999 at 18:14:52
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"Misfortune comes from having a body." Lao Tze. I have never read in the Bible where it says that once a person becomes a Christian, then all of his or her problems and pain are over. I would imagine that to be very true. I cannot see how a person's relationship with God can produce material benefits. Believing in God cannot make you rich in stuff, nor should it. Televangelists with their Mercedes and huge houses are not rich because of their relationship with God, but rather because their followers are stupid enough to keep sending them money. But, praise God, he is alive and doing ok now Lets have a look at the boy in question for a moment, shall we? Obviously God did not prevent the boy's falling from the rock, and I seriously doubt that He pushed him off of it. Are we going to assume that God is capable of preventing injuries of that kind--or any other? If one is capable of preventing an evil from occurring, and does not, then is that person, God included, guilty of that evil? I think that the evidence is pretty strong that He not prevent physical evil. If we believe that God is a loving presence, wanting only what is best for us, then we are left with an apparent contradiction. But Er, Judah's first-born, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord slew him. (Genesis 38:7) No ills befall the righteous, but the wicked are filled with trouble. (Proverbs 12:21) Consider, what innocent ever perished, or where have the righteous been destroyed? (Job 14:7) At first reading, it ought to be rather clear that nothing bad will ever happen to good people. The physical evidence, however, is overwhelmingly contrary. What could that boy have possibly done to deserve brain damage? Or, for that matter, what have you done to deserve the bad things in your life? You don't seem to believe that any of it is in retribution for any wrong you may have done. So, at least in the case of the first three quotes, we must ask whether or not the author was being ironic or foolish. I think that in the case of the fourth, from Job, we can rest assured that the author was in fact being bitterly ironic. But in order to view these statements as ironic, we must therefore assume that all men, women, children are...bad, deserving of whatever befalls them. Since it is hard to see how a two-year old could deserve cancer, I reject the idea that humans, in general, deserve what we get. And since I cannot accept the idea of any collective guilt, I must then accept the idea that there is another reason for physical evil. The authors of the above quotes were wrong. But, praise God, he is alive and doing ok now But Chris, if God didn't push the boy off the rock, because the boy surely could not have deserved it; and if he didn't prevent him from falling, because believing in God cannot produce material benefits; then it's hard to see how he would then fix the damage done by the fall. There is also a "school" of thought among some of the more simple minded that such things happen in order so that God may "show how great he is." I would imagine that such people ought to be thrown from cliffs themselves so that they may, by their suffering, thereby increase our knowledge of God's greatness. I'd volunteer to do the throwing. d's question about the Bl, or any man for that matter, who loses his faith in consequence of adversity is surely of more import than the boy's injury. As bad as it was, if one looks at life as eternal, then injuries to the body are seen as temporary. If one really has eternity to work with, then losing one's legs is of no more import than stubbing a toe. It's the loss of love, it's loneliness, it's persecution that dest roy a person's faith. That boy is well loved by his family and congregation; it's doubtful he'll ever be alone. There are those who are alone. BL suffer from loneliness regularly. I truly believe this, but I also believe that God will never allow us to be tempted (and I believe "to suffer" also) more than we can bear. It would be nice to think that; but if God does not push little boys off of cliffs, then he does not ever cause human suffering, at least not directly. The world runs according to the laws; those laws do not change. It is much harder to see how God could allow a person to be without love, without friends and family, knowing in advance that such absences in a person's life can lead to hatred and a twisting of the soul. And if one believes that belief in God is necessary for a person's salvation, then one is left believing, once again, that God has set up the world in such a way that a person can be "damned" over something they had little control over. I think a lot of Christians (and boylover Christians especially) loose their faith in God out of frustration. Come on Chris, don't contradict yourself. ;) But I also believe that God NEVER, EVER loses His faith in us. And once we accept Him, once we are saved, that is forever! No matter what you do? Let me ask you this: Does God love all people? Yes? Does he love them even if they have not been saved, or if they have lost their faith? Yes? How could he not? I think that the answer is that we must also trust God to do the right thing by all humans, over the course of eternity, whether or not we are saved in this lifetime. A Rue-roux: One table spoon vegetable oil, heated in a pan. Two carrots, minced. Celery, minced. Onion, minced. Cook the veg in the oil until translucent. Sprinkle good flour over the top, mix until oil is absorbed. This makes a great base for any soup, just deglaze the pot with your favorite stock or even with water. Rue, out to lunch. |