Judging and other things
Submitted by Dakota on January 23 2002 22:13:04
In reply to Hearts for Christ submitted by Bach on January 23 2002 16:43:52
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I agree with much of what you have written, Bach. It appears that most of it was written in part because of the recent exchange many of us had with AI Watcher. One of the things you said was: "I am not able to ignore the BLs at CBF when they imply that they are more holy, more deserving or more moral than the BLs at BoyChat." I read every post and wrote a few myself and didn't see anyone implying that. The closest I can find is when it was stated by me and others that non-Christians often have a "different" moral code than Christians. I don't think it was directed only at BC since there are BCers that are Christians also. However, if what was said somehow came across how you say it did, especially anything I wrote, I would very much like to be made aware of what exactly gave that impression. I won't get mad or argue that I didn't mean it that way (which I didn't), but if how I come across to others is perceived in a different way than I intend, I need to know so I can try to find a different way of stating my position. I think you are correct when you say we shouldn't be afraid to associate with people who don't believe as we do. One of my favorite sayings is " A ship in the harbor is safe. But that's not what ships are built for." But I think there are Biblical reasons to be cautious. The main issue I had with AI wasn't his opinions, which differed greatly with mine. It was how he constantly resorted to vulgarities and name calling and how he kept stubbornly insisting that things were said that never were said at all. I've never felt being a Christian meant you had to accept any abuse someone felt like laying on you. The only time Jesus put up with unfair abuse was when it was to serve the intended purpose he came to Earth for. There are many examples of Him not allowing himself to be abused. Such as...... "At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds." John 8:59 "Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp." John 10:39 "So from that day on, they plotted to take his life. Therefore Jesus no longer moved about publicly among the Jews." John 11:53-54 The issue of judging others is something I have yet to understand fully. On one hand, the Bible tells us not to judge others. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5 But on the other hand, the Bible also tells us there are times we should judge. "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17 So in that case, we are judging a brother who sinned against us. But there's also the next scripture. "I have written to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral, or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expell the wicked man from among you." 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 So I take that to mean we are not to judge non-believers, but are, in some cases, expected to judge those within the church. But judging people in the church, even if it is with love, still causes problems because we may have differing views on what is sin and what isn't. I must also ask myself 'what constitutes judging?' If I decide that another person's opinion, whether he be Christian or non-Christian, is not consistent with God's teaching, am I not judging him? Even if I don't ask or expect him to live by that standard because he is not a Christian, am I not still passing judgement? But if I were to not state my position, thereby not offending anyone with my beliefs (or judgements?), I would not be true to my own beliefs, and would actually be lying if I let him believe i didn't think anything was wrong with his beliefs or actions. Can you see the quandry I'm in? I tend to think that a lot of people just don't like anyone saying that they think they are wrong. You don't believe in God? I don't want to offend you, so I have no opinion on that. You want to have sex with anything that moves? Hey, it's your choice. You want to kill your unborn child? Well, it's legal, so I guess that means it's ok. You're a little short of money, so you are going to rob a convenience store? None of my business. Some guy cheated you so now you are going to murder him? That's between you and your conscience, dude. After all, I don't want to be accused of judging you. Sometimes people throw out the "you're judging me" accusation when what they really mean is "I want to do anything I please and don't want you voicing a different point of view." I'm still working out what the whole Bible teaches about judging and how it applies to me. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Dakota |
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