I was using "pro-gay" loosely . . .
Submitted by Heather on August 21 1999 at 02:57:07
In reply to It's not pro gays I'm concerned about Submitted by Jimf3 on August 21 1999 at 00:02:56
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. . . to refer to people who are in favor of homosexual behavior. Some are involved in gay Christian organizations, some aren't. "Why are Christians here invariably silent when these matters come up?" I'm not sure what you mean by "invariably silent." I'd calculate that roughly a dozen CBF members have posted messages by now denouncing Jesus Lover's views. As for outside CBF, did you ever get a change to look at that post at RDC where I described efforts being made by churches to fight bigotry of all sorts? "I posted a thread here and asked if people thought I was possessed. So far, only one person has unequivicably posted to say that I am not." My dear, you're not at BC. Look at the board; since you posted, only two other threads have been started. This is a slow board, with very few participants. My guess is that most people, like myself, didn't bother to answer because this was simply a rephrasing of the question you asked last time, whether people thought that you were evil by virtue of being homosexual. Everyone said then – often at great length and in the face of flames from you – that they didn't think you're an evil person; it's a bit hard for us to think of anything original to say at this point. Jesus Lover's views have been denounced repeatedly; he continues to express them. There's no more point in our continuing to say that we disagree with him than there is in continuing to respond to a child advocate who doesn't pay any attention to the replies to his posts. What I think that people here are trying to do is to get to know Jesus Lover better so that we can communicate better with him and thus find a way to better express why we feel that his views on this matter are either wrong or poorly expressed. We can't do this simply by posting denunciations. Remember, this board is here for support – support of non-Christian boylovers, certainly, but also support of Christian boylovers. Perhaps our attempts to find some way to communicate our disagreements with Jesus Lover aren't forceful enough for you, but the tone of this board is in the "Jesus sitting at table with sinners" – of talking with people gently rather than shouting at them. I happen to think that that's one of the things that makes CBF so nice. "Where are the mainstream Christian organizations - the ones that represent the bulk of Christianity - when it comes to opposing homophobia?" I think you missed the point of what I was saying in my previous post. Where are the mainstream secular organizations that oppose homophobia? Well, secular heterosexuals either join organizations that are committed to fighting bigotry of all sorts or they work alongside gays in gay-dominated organizations. There just aren't many secular organizations specifically formed for heterosexuals who wish to fight homophobia. The same is true of Christians heterosexuals. Some Christian heterosexuals belong to Christian committees that are formed to fight against bigotry or to deal in some general way with gay issues, while others take part in gay Christian organizations. The Interfaith Working Group (the site to which I referred you) is not a gay group. Bridges Across is not a gay group. OCRT is not a gay group. All of these organizations are dominated by Christians or other religious people, and all of them spend a large portion of their time fighting homophobia. The mainstream Christians who fight homophobia through internal organizations are less likely to be noticed by the media, which does an appalling job of covering religion news. If you follow the press releases of these organizations, though, you quickly become aware of how much work is being done in the churches to fight homophobia. It's not enough – I've said that before and will say so repeatedly – but the churches aren't the wasteland you're envisioning. It's rather as though you were an outsider who was trying to judge the activities of boylovers without ever taking part in boylove boards. If you're not part of a Christian organization, or at least don't work closely with Christians who are in such organizations, you may miss the good work that is being done by them. Below is a resolution that was overwhelmingly passed by the Episcopal Church in 1997. I was following closely at that time the mainstream media's coverage of the convention, and I can tell you that none of the major news services or newspapers reported on this resolution except in passing; by contrast, they spent tons of ink reporting on a fight over same-sex union liturgies. Good news just doesn't interest most journalists. Heather Resolved, That, while acknowledging the diversity of opinion among the bishops and deputies of this Convention on the morality of gay and lesbian sexual relationships, the 72nd General Convention apologizes on behalf of the Episcopal Church to its members who are gay or lesbian and to lesbians and gay men outside the Church for years of rejection and maltreatment by the Church; and be it further Resolved, That this Church shall seek amendment of our life together as we ask God's help in sharing the Good News with all people. |