A shorter response. One donut should be planty.
Submitted by Dakota on March 25 2002 02:06:48
In reply to my long response-- grab some coffee and sit a spel submitted by sally on March 24 2002 22:50:08
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The first thing I want to comment on is how you feel that pedophilia is a sin. I just can't agree. I don't see anywhere in the Bible where basic feelings are considered sinful. These feelings can lead us to do certain ACTS, which might be sinful, but the feelings themselves are not. How can they be? Take a "normal" person's sexual attraction to the opposite sex. The Bible teaches that sex outside marriage is sinful. But most every human being has sexual feelings as soon as puberty hits. So by your reasoning, these feelings are sinful since they aren't confined to marriage. But God created us with those feelings, even Adam and Eve. So if those feelings are sinful, then God must have made us with sinful desires, and that cannot be. The Bible clearly says let no man say that God is tempting him. Sexual feelings didn't just pop up after the fall of man. It's a basic instict inborn in every human. Granted that a pedophiles sexual feelings aren't the norm, but they are still just feelings, or desires, that we have absolutely no control over. To say that it is sin to even have the desires is to doom us (and everyone else with any kind of feelings) to be constantly sinning our entire lives. And that also goes against Bible teaching. We will never be perfect till we get to heaven, but the Bible teaches that we CAN overcome sin. But we CAN'T change our sexual orientation, without direct intervention from God. So when you talk about struggling with this "sin" of our desires, struggle implies there is some chance of winning. To try to change our orientation would be as successful as trying to change the course of the wind. So we work on controlling our actions, which is something we CAN do. The next thing I want to comment on is that I didn't mean to imply that pedophiles have some exclusive right to loving boys. Of course others are capable of loving as much. But for some unknown reason, most pedophiles do seem to have a better than average ability to relate to boys. I think it's a gift of sorts, and I have no idea how sex got intertwined in the mix. But you are correct that the added sexual component is why we call ourselves boylovers, I guess. Often, a boy will talk about stuff with an adult friend that he would never talk about with his father. And I think it would be wrong and wasting a gift if all pedophiles avoided relationships with boys. You mentioned a few times how we shouldn't look for YFs. I never have. The 2 YFs I've had im my life both found me, I wasn't looking for them. I have heard many similar stories. So either the boys can somehow sense how much we care for them, or maybe God brings a boy who needs extra attention into the life of a pedophile who can give it. Maybe a little of both. You said a few times how we shouldn't love boys more than girls or men or women. While it's true God loves and cares for us all equally, we are not God. No one loves equally, no matter how much you strive to do so. We are naturally drawn to some people more than others. Just wanting to love equally does not make it so. And you said a few times how we should not love boys "that way." I get the impression you think we love boys the same way we would love a wife. That isn't so. I, and most pedophiles I have come in contact with over the internet, love boys more like a father would love a son. I know that sounds weird considering there is also a sexual attraction, but it's the truth. I have never been married, but I am attracted to women and have fallen in love with a few, 2 inparticular. And the love I had for the women was not the same as the love I had for the 2 YFs I mentioned earlier, or the caring I feel for boys in general. And I want to stress that most boylovers aren't trying to replace the father, just be a friend and mentor. *Why don't you just say, "Sally I'm a sinner and you're sinner, you can understand my trials."* Because there is no way on God's green Earth that you can understand my trials. I would, however, prefer to be more open about it so I can enlist the supposrt of other Christians in my church. But alas, that is not to be. Maybe that would work in a perfect world, or a perfect church. And I have read of others who have "come out" with good results. But the few people I have told made it clear to me, both in words and actions, that it would not be a good thing. I would be ostracized, looked on with suspicion and contempt, lose a lot of friends, and of course never be trusted around kids again. "Where are we told to find others of like kind to hang with? That is not what the church is about." Well I already addressed the failure of the church on this issue. However, even if the church was supportive, it's still common sense to find people with similar struggles to band together and help each other out. That's why alcoholics go to Alcoholics Anonymous and not Various Problems Anonymous. "My point is that you, with your feelings, need not think you are different from other sinners." But I AM different. The world singles me and my kind out to be different. We are, in a sense, the new "niggers" that everyone feels good about hating. But at least we have an advantage that blacks in the past never had. We can hide how we are different. But unfortunately, that is also a disadvantage because it breeds paranoia. "I think you are saying that your desires are well and good and fine with God" No, I am saying I don't consider desires a sin, and that therefore they don't require repentance. I can't do anything about them. This is one thing (my orientation) that if God wants changed, he will have to do it himself, because it is beyond my Earthly ability to do so. "Should the alcoholic hang out at the corner bar and talk about how it is fine for him to love alcohol as long as he doesn't drink it?" Well I wouldn't recommend the corner bar, but why not talk about how much he loves alcohol. Why should he lie. I've found the best way to deal with things is usually to face them, not deny them or refuse to discuss them. "Or is it better for him to find a support group made up of people who have not had booze in many years?" I'm surprised you didn't suggest he find support from people who have never had a problem with booze. That is what you are suggesting for me and the rest of us. "We all have blind spots in our lives--areas of sin where we really cannot see clearly" True enough. That's why church support in addition to sites like this would be very helpful. If only it were possible. "I am saying that just abstaining from sex is not good enough. You should not even "have boys"." I'm not sure what you mean by "have boys." It's not like they are treated or thought of like wives, as I've stated before. They are treated and thought of as young friends, as the term implies. And I don't agree that this is wrong. "It is one thing for you to say that you have an attraction for boys. You like them. You like to spend time with them. You would like to have sex with them if that was acceptable to God and society. But when you realize that it is not acceptable to God why pick a YF?" As I said before, they often pick us. And just because I have a sexual attraction to boys does not mean I should ignore a boy who wants and/or needs an adult friend. That would be the height of selfishness, to deny a boy my attention only because it would be easier for me since I wouldn't have to deal with the sexual issue. This is my problem, not his. There is no reason for him to be denied for something that is inside me. Denying him my friendship wouldn't be as bad as molesting him, but it would be for the same reason. I would be thinking of what was best for me instead of what was best for him. I don't deny that I would get emotional pleasure from being friend and mentor to a boy. But that is certainly not the easiest or least complicated path to choose. So while I do not and am not searching for a YF, if one finds me, I will not turn him away. It would take too long to go into all the stuff you broght up about the family and how God wants it to be. It would take way too long and is getting a bit off track with what we are discussing. But I agree with most of it as far as what the "ideal" family should be. But we are a long way from ideal these days. You lost me completely when you spoke of the stoning of the homosexuals in the covenant community. I've read the entire Bible many times at one point or another and can't remember ever reading about that. But I think I addressed most of your points. And I've already gone beyond the one donut post I promised in the heading. I believe our two main points that we disagree on is whether or not these sexual desires are a sin. I don't believe they are. And even if I'm wrong, I can't do a thing about them, so why worry about them? There are enough things to worry about that I have some possibility of changing without adding something that is beyond my control. And I guess you don't think it's right for us to band together. I'm still unclear as to why. In my church, they have a singles group, a young marrieds group, a single mothers group, a divorced fathers group, and all sorts of other groups that bring people that have similar situations together. So what is so wrong about a Christian pedophiles group? You say we shouldn't set ourselves apart and should seek support from Christians in general. That just doesn't work very often. You must be aware of the way most people, including Christians, feel about us. And even when we find someone who accepts us, they don't have a clue what it's like and no way will they ever understand. There is no way you will ever fully understand what it's like to be a pedophile, just as I will never fully understand what it's like to give birth, or have a period. Yes, we can support each other, but there is no way we will ever understand each other's "special" burdens. So if you have problems with menstruation, I doubt very much that you will seek my advise. In short, we all need people who will UNDERSTAND what we are going thru and the unique problems our particular situation bring up. It's a shame that we can't also get support from non-pedophiles, but that just isn't to be at this time in history. I hope it will happen sometime in the future, when we are no longer vilified and looked upon as evil. But until then, places like this are the best, and sometimes only thing we have to cope with our desires and a world that hates us. I'm not trying to be melodramatic. It's the truth. I think you want us all to just blend in. I do blend in in all other aspect of my life. But this is one area that can't be blended due to the current hysteria about child molestations. So my only options are to never talk about it and try to deal with it alone, or to come here and talk about it with others who are going thru the same thing. Why do you think that is so terrible? From getting to know you a bit, I would have thought you would support it. Dakota |
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