Re: The nature of the 'gift of celibacy'
Submitted by Forgiven on April 5 2002 14:35:28
In reply to Re: The nature of the 'gift of celibacy' submitted by sally on April 4 2002 20:57:23
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The passage in 1 Corinthians 6 says that the one who is not going to marry is devoted to the Lord and is not entangled emotionally with a spouse. There is not indication that he is entangled emotionally with other people. The passage in 1 Cor actually refers to the person having a fiancee - but chosing not to marry them (I Cor 7 v 36).... Do you mean that french kissing a child is OK since it is not "genital" sexual expression-- rather it is some other type of intimacy? Define genital sexual expression, please, and then tell me how the Bible differentiates between it and other forms of sexual expression Now there is a HARD question. I agree that French kissing is inappropriate. But there is definately a grey area; the hugs I give to my YFs are non sexual - but between a husband a wife the same physical action might well be sexual in their intent. On one argument all touch is sexual. But that leaves some fairly messy issues!! It's about touch and intimacy and intention. I know when I'm being appropriate, I know when I'm pushing my luck - and I walk away from that and repent afterwards. But I really can't provide a clear 'rulebook'. How dare you think that your petty little struggles have been heavier for you to bear than the weight he bore?! seems a reasonable interpretation of: Hebrews 4 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. To suggest that Jesus was without sexual temptation is exclude that area of the battlefield. Which doesn't seem to chime with the verse above. And you failed to answer my question about bestiality. Do you think Jesus was sexually attracted to the donkey? Don't know about this one. Your exposition elsewhere of the way in which straight people adopt additional sexual orientations 'for kicks' perhaps answers this; I don't think people grow up to find that their only orientation is beastial, unlike those of us who grow up to find we are gay. BIG difference. Why are you speaking about me in the third person all of sudden? Because it was a new thread, rather than a specific response. No insult intended!! Desires are not neutral. They are either good or evil. There is no middle ground. So what was Eve's attraction for the apple? As Jules points out - this occurred before the fall, so is not a sin as such. So it is not evil. I thought instead of walking by you were hanging out with the boys and deriving some sexual pleasure from nonsexual contact. I'd use the more neutral term emotional fulfillment and intimacy, rather than sexual - which you are filling with more negative vibes than I agree to! I have four alternatives: 1) Find myself a cute 16 year old from the gay community who needs a boyfriend. 2) Build constructive, safe relationships with young men who benefit from my friendship and who accept me for whom I REALLY am, and yet still are happy to spend time with me (have you any idea of the value of that?) 3) Attempt to construct a relationship leading towards a marriage that I might well end up failing to consummate. 4)Close down on relationships entirely.... First of all you have define "condemn" if you are charging me with condemning anyone. Condemn in the sense of identifying this behaviour as unacceptable to God. Secondly you have to explain what it means for a BL to be energized. What is this term? I've never heard it. It's the same energy that arises when you see a beautiful work of art. You smile, and feel better because of it. Now that CAN go beyond that and indulge in lust - or you can stop at that point. Does that make more sense?! But he could remove the temptation for cake from him almost completely if he would fill his tummy with foods that were allowed and stay away from the bakery. He really could. In some ways the story of your friend who discovered she was a lesbian when she 'fell in love' with a woman despite being married appears to offer some evidence against this claim..... No one answered my question about what you all do when you are out with your boys? Do you share the bathroom? I try to avoid any situation that is inappropriate; it's not always possible - if a cute colleague turns up in the bathroom after you've gone in, there's not a lot to be done except keep your eyes to yourself. But in as far as I can, yes I try to avoid seeing more of anyone I find sexually attractive than I would see if they were fully dressed. Hmm - as ever some hard questions. I hope I've made sense to you, Sally, and offered some responses that help you understand where I'm coming from. I want to live as God wants me to - and you're encouraging me to be more precise in areas that I've never thought about with great precision. And perhaps we're encouraging others to think things through for themselves! To GOD be the glory.... |
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