The long and the short answer
Submitted by F.O.D. on February 22 1999 at 13:11:50
In reply to On Homosexuality Submitted by Ben on February 21 1999 at 21:05:03
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Wow, Ben, those are sure big questions, certainly for me, at any rate. Are you sure you're ready to get into this one? :) I'll try to be concise in giving you my take on the issue. First, though, I'll mention that I separate boylove into two parts - the homosexual part and the intergenerational part. The intergenerational part doesn't bother me a whole lot in a moral sense. It simply means I have to be careful to exercise self-control while seeking to bring the boy up to become a mature individual, able to make his own decisions on who he will love. In separating out the sexuality part of boylove, what we have left is a "mentoring" friendship, the kind of relationship that you've committed yourself to, and that's great. A verse that I consider relevant to pedophilia is Ezekiel 16:4-8. It's the homosexuality side of the equation that concerns me from a moral point of view, and is important in helping me know what sort of relationship I can share with my YF in the future (no offense, but it seems to me plain silly to say a boylover is not "homosexual", but anyway, labels are not so important) So where does the question of the morality of homosexuality come from? The short answer is that there are a handful of verses in the Bible which on the face of it seem to indicate black&white that homosexuality is detestable to God. (At this point I will make clear that I am referring to homosexual practice, one man having sex with another, not to homosexual attraction. It's the difference between being tempted to sin, and actually committing that sin. And there is absolutely no objection to one male loving another male deeply but nonsexually) The main verses are Lev 18:22 (20:13) "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." Romans 1:26,27 "Men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another" Other relevent verses are Gen 19:4,5ff (Judges 19:22), 1 Cor 6:9-11. There are other supporting passages too, like Gen 2, where God creates a woman for the man, not another man. Now for someone who doesn't have to deal with homosexual attraction, they wouldn't feel the need to have to think about these verses any more. But for those of us who do experience this kind of attraction, we're sent crying out to God "what's all this all about? Why is it like that?" For myself, I have always assumed that these verses are to be interpreted in the traditional way, that homosexual sexual activity of any kind is wrong, and that my homosexual feelings are just further proof of the fact that I'm sinful. But it is time for me to challenge my habitual interpretation to test whether we have been reading them correctly. That's what we've been debating here at CBF, with Ray and others giving a very interesting perspective that is still completely consistent with the Bible's message as a whole. That's an important point in trying to understand the Bible, that you have to take things in context, not just pluck verses out on their own. Otherwise you can read verses like Rom 5:20 "where sin increased, grace increased all the more", and think "Yippee! Now I can sin all I want to and God will give me more grace for it". Thinking and interpreting like that is missing the whole point. Which brings us to a valid objection to the traditional stance on homosexuality. What exactly is the whole point in Christianity? What is the big thing that Jesus has done? Why isn't it enough that you were born a Jew, why do you have to think about Christianity? The whole point, as I read it, is to love. That's all. Just as Jesus summarised the whole of the Torah in two simple laws: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind; and love your neighbour as yourself" (Matt 22:35-40) And the thing that Jesus' death achieves for us is Freedom, the freedom to love in this way without fear of falling under judgement (Gal 5:13). So, if God truly detests any kind of homosexual practic e, it must be because homosexuality goes against the law to love and not for any other reason. Either there's something spiritually significant about homosexuality, and it breaks the First law to love God, or there's something intrinsically bad about it (physically or socially), and it breaks the Second law to love your neighbour as yourself. OK, do you see in what way homosexual love obviously breaks either of the laws of love? Ummm, hmmm, yeah, neither do I. On the contrary, one might say that the traditional anti view of homosexuality breaks the Second law, by preventing two people from loving each other naturally. So it's at this point that we ask if there are other ways of understanding the homosexual verses that are fully consistent with the heart of Christianity, which is Love and Freedom. As it turns out, even conservative theologians readily concede that the verses in Leviticus are referring to a type of idolatrous practice found in Canaan. ie ritual idolatrous homosexual activity is being condemned, rather than natural, loving homosexual activity. The Romans verse could similarly be viewed in the context of Rom 1:21, ie it is referring to people who reject knowledge of God and turn themselves over to debauchery, ie god-hating lust is being condemned rather than a God-fearing loving. So, upon closer inspection, the whole issue does not seem so clear as I first thought. Again, in the context of the commandment to love, Jimf3's comment impressed me (he was expressing his objections to Christianity at one point). He said he knows some things are evil because they cause tangible harm - I agree that this is what the law of love is saying - but then with respect to homosexuality he object "but why am I being condemned because I love?" That's when I started wondering whether the traditional view does in fact contradict the law to love. So, personally, I cannot come to a conclusion either way. The pro-gay argument that Christ gives us the freedom to love is very convincing, but at the same time I find it hard to accept that so many good Christians have been wrong in taking the anti-gay interpretation. As a last comment, I say I think the Bible is against the so-called "gay lifestyle", ie the life of promscuity that many gay people lead, cruising the gay bars and bathhouses from orgasm to orgasm. When I allow the possibility that two men can love one another sexually, I am assuming the context of a monogamous long-term relationship, a generalisation of heterosexual marriage, if you like. Another relevent verse here is 1 Sam 18:1-4 etc (though I don't believe David and Jonathan had a sexual relationship) Well I hope I haven't written too much. If you have any fresh insights, since you're looking at all this from a fresh point of view and aren't so emotionally involved if you think of yourself as not gay, then I'd be happy to hear! Love, Fod |