It depends what the subtext is

Christian Boylove Forum

It depends what the subtext is

Submitted by Forgiven on February 14 2002 14:22:01
In reply to Dunno about you all, but... submitted by Altima on February 14 2002 09:26:57

in the sense that if the church is perceived as affirming behaviour that is wrong, then it is on a loser. If it is seeking to provide some form of liturgical, formalised structured prayer for a difficult situation, then there may be some value in it.

For example, in the prayer shown:

Lord, i do not always find it easy
To accept that my child is gay
So many strong and harsh opinions are expressed.

Be with me in my confusion
When the world changes
Our children defy convention
And find new ways of expressing their love.

Help us to find faith in the challenge before us.
And grace to discover together the meaning of love.

AMEN

The first 6 lines are uncontroversial - it's the last 4 that are a problem to me; there is an implication that gay sex is OK, which is a view that is controversial. I would want at least to ask God to show us what is his will - which is the core definition of Christianity, doing what is God's will. And of course the prayer elides the issue of being gay and having a gay relationship - a distinction that is absolutely crucial for those of us trying to hold to a celibate lifestyle despite being 'gay'.

At the risk of being accused of being a 'conspiracy thoerist', I do feel that it is true to say that there is a desire on the part of the 'gay' community to seek to legitimise their behaviour by means of steady stream of such ambiguities. This is seen in films where gay relationships are seen as totally normal - '4 wedding and a funeral' and 'The Full Monty' being good examples; the gay relationship is slipped in as an accepted, normal thing. In effect it is a propanda technique - if you imply something often enough it will tend to become accepted, even if a few years earlier it would have been rejected as totally unacceptable. This was very much Hitler's approach with the claim that the Jews were subhuman and not worthy of equal consideration; similarly the downgrading of the unborn child to a discardable bundle of cells has been achieved by similar means.

Overall, I am sad that the opportunity for a pastorally sensitive and appropriate prayer has been lost in a mire of ambiguity. Sadly however ambiguity seems to be the stock in trade of the mainstream churches these days....

Follow ups:

I'm a little confused here... - Babel-17 February 14 2002 21:33:34 (2)
- The summary of Jesus's message - Forgiven February 15 2002 02:20:29 (1)
  - wellllll......(: - Babel-17 February 15 2002 14:01:25 (0)
Over-reactions galore... - Altima February 14 2002 20:34:09 (42)
- Listen, dawg - Rahiim February 14 2002 21:10:08 (30)
  - I've listened. - Altima February 14 2002 21:27:55 (29)
    - Who could love? - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:29:53 (28)
      - Re: Who could love? - Altima February 14 2002 21:38:25 (16)
        
        Fuck that hypocritical bullshit - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:45:11 (0)
        
        It is MORALLY OK! - Rahiim February 14 2002 21:44:32 (14)
        
        Really? - Altima February 14 2002 21:51:17 (12)
        
        Yes, really - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:55:14 (11)
        
        Really really? - Altima February 14 2002 22:02:01 (10)
        
        You're just vile - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:05:00 (9)
        
        Yes, I am vile, I'm human, just as you are. - Altima February 14 2002 22:11:14 (8)
        
        I didn't know anyone could be that disgusting - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:14:50 (7)
        
        I didn't know anyone could misread that - Altima February 14 2002 22:18:11 (6)
        
        What the fuck are you talking about? - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:21:52 (5)
        
        Fine, fine fine - Altima February 14 2002 22:25:17 (4)
        
        Then fuck you - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:29:03 (3)
        
        I'm glad we're all so reasonable here - Altima February 14 2002 22:33:00 (2)
        
        Look Mr Japanese Car, - Rahiim February 14 2002 23:07:57 (0)
        
        I'm not slandering you - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:34:41 (0)
        
        Exactly - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:47:18 (0)
      - it's just like Jesus said to the Pharisees.. - Babel-17 February 14 2002 21:38:13 (10)
        
        Indeed - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:44:07 (9)
        
        what a wonderful story!! - Babel-17 February 14 2002 22:02:02 (8)
        
        Yeah, it's kinda cool - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:06:23 (7)
        
        I find it very encouraging... - Babel-17 February 14 2002 22:43:19 (6)
        
        That was HIS brother, btw - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:51:26 (5)
        
        LOL! I'll get this right yet! - Babel-17 February 14 2002 23:08:05 (4)
        
        Cool - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 23:16:25 (3)
        
        I'm *really* starting to like your dad here! (: - Babel-17 February 14 2002 23:34:43 (2)
        
        My mother always used to say ... - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 23:37:50 (1)
        
        we're the products of our times... - Babel-17 February 15 2002 00:01:01 (0)
- Oh, bullshit - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 20:39:14 (10)
  - It's a shame - Dakota February 14 2002 21:02:04 (9)
    - Yes it is - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:06:30 (8)
      - Me? Oh dear. - Altima February 14 2002 21:13:24 (7)
        
        But we deserve to be 'legal' and legitimized - Rahiim February 14 2002 21:23:06 (5)
        
        Amen - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:25:14 (4)
        
        Amen = 'I believe' in Hebrew. - Altima February 14 2002 21:46:44 (3)
        
        I know - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:50:52 (2)
        
        Re: I know - Altima February 14 2002 21:58:41 (1)
        
        The time for that is over - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:01:37 (0)
        
        We don't NEED to be legitimized - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:18:25 (0)
GET BENT YOU FUCKIN' BIGOTED HOMOPHOBE!!!!!!!!! - Rahiim February 14 2002 15:36:27 (12)
- Re: GET BENT YOU FUCKIN' BIGOTED HOMOPHOBE!!!!!!!! - Athiest-AL February 28 2002 16:02:22 (0)
- Something really interesting, Rahiim. - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 20:34:33 (10)
  - Interesting, but not so - Altima February 14 2002 21:06:34 (9)
    - OK, so you a homophobic agnostic - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:11:03 (8)
      - Hmm - Altima February 14 2002 21:16:00 (7)
        
        It's not a semantic argument - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:20:38 (6)
        
        !! - Altima February 14 2002 21:32:36 (5)
        
        Yes, it certainly is - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:35:49 (4)
        
        I'll give you 'morally questionable' - Altima February 14 2002 21:40:14 (3)
        
        I didn't say all Christians - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 21:53:38 (2)
        
        Ahh, I see - Altima February 14 2002 22:04:31 (1)
        
        No, Christians who are not homophobic bigots - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 22:09:23 (0)
We don't need to legitimize our behavior - A.I. Watcher February 14 2002 14:26:35 (0)

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